>> how would you rate the status of the church as the pope is leaving? has it gotten better or worse? >> it varies a great deal from continent to continent. in europe and in north america, the church appears to be shrinking. membership, of course, is one indicator and not necessarily the only one, of course, but one indicator of the church's vibrancy and life. on the other hand, in africa, and asia, for example, the church is growing at quite a remarkable rate. in the last 100 years, for example, the catholic church in africa has grown enormously. there are now more than 200 million christians in africa, and they have very little understanding for the demands in europe and north america for reforms within the church. i live myself for many years in southern africa, and the church there is very vibrant.